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March 5, 2009

Quick Thought

by @ 1:12 pm. Filed under Blue Blooded Opinions

I have been seeing a lot of comments by people that fans should “support the Coach” and that a “true Kentucky fan doesnt blast the Coach.” Maybe thats true, maybe it isnt….but often those same people then in the next sentence, blast a player on the team for not having “heart” or for not being talented enough for UK.

If you want to take the position that a true fan shouldnt blast anyone associated with the program, then I can respect that. But if your position is simply that fans can blast players, but should only support the coach, that strikes me as bizarrely hypocritical.

99 Responses to “Quick Thought”

  1. Mojo Wilkins Says:

    Anyone who knocks a kid that is busting his ass for the team, no matter what the kids talent level, is out-of-bounds. BCG deserves any insult hurled his way. He coaches like he’s too hung over to care about the game.

  2. gbl5233 Says:

    859-257-8015
    Mitch Barnharts office

  3. monstermash Says:

    true blasting kids vs. blasting the coach seem different. HE’S A MAN– HE’S FORTY! Don’t blast the kids and politely voice your concerns about the coach

  4. The Fake Gimel Martinez Says:

    My position is fetal.

  5. Kantukeeslim Says:

    BREAKING NEWS!! Meeks was just seen wearing an NBA sweatshirt. He’s gone, folks, he’s gone.

  6. benfrick Says:

    Any chance BG will resign?

  7. TheProwler Says:

    859-389-4888
    Pizza Hut.

  8. smiddy911 Says:

    lol @ 5

  9. Scottyp Says:

    I agree Matt and I’ve probably been a little guilty of that also but I think some people just aren’t wording themselves well with all the frustration. Everyone is fair game to a degree but we all know its best for the program for Billy to succeed here and we all know he isn’t going anywhere for another 2 years unless its voluntary. The balme (if there is going to be blame) needs to go out to everyone on the team (coaches and players) as well as the previous regime imo. I know you dont agree with that but Billy can’t be held responsible for everything around this program after only being here two years. I think he has had a bad year, it doesn’t mean he will again next year. THis team has many new faces that have never played D1 ball until this year. We have two guys that played significant mintues last year and one of those has had a terrible year. Lets support them all thru a bad year, all of us learn from it and hope next year is a different story, if not then coach starts becoming a question mark but its too early now for this level of criticism mo matter what. We are rebuilding and lets stop acting like we aren’t

  10. Miller Time Says:

    5) LOL

  11. rdn Says:

    agreed, Matt–good point. Billy Clyde gets paid a lot of money to sit and smirk; as a “TRUE” fan I will blast him as much as I want.

  12. mgcat Says:

    Or vice/versa, Matt. Seems to me that at times you are much more willing to blame the coach, rather than the players. I know that you follow recruiting and have an affinity for these young men and their families because of your famialiarity. But like you yourself have said, it’s a two-way street. The coach sets up the game plan, and it’s up to layers to execute.

    Just sayin’, dude.

  13. fearnloathing20 Says:

    That be the truth. I hate Billy, always have always will (I’m a liberal who thinks he is a racist moron who the players hate), but I never criticize guys who are much more hard working than I could ever imagine being. My only question during college was where is the bong not what time is practice. All these guys are great. Its the coach’s job to determine who plays when and to put them in a place to win. Its not Porter’s fault that he has to play man 2 man for 40 mins (he is not that fast folks) and it isnt the 2nd squad’s fault that they were put in during the most crucial part of the game last night. I have pitty on all of you people who find a 20 year old more accountable than the 40 year old who LEADS them.

    Well thats America right, now my generation is expected to pick up all the slack for the past 20 years while all you old people blame my generation.

  14. mgcat Says:

    should said “layers”… my bad. Typing skills = 0

  15. mgcat Says:

    PLAYERS…damn keyboard

  16. booted Says:

    Agree with 12….

  17. Matt Jones Says:

    I criticize players where I think it is deserved (I have been particularly hard on Liggins), and some criticism is fine. But to criticize a 21 year old guy for not being talented enough and to blast him, while saying that any criticism of his 2 million dollar a year coach is off limits….well that strikes me as bizarre.

  18. rdn Says:

    Matt–you struck the nail on the head just now.

  19. mgcat Says:

    13 - Oh, yes. I’m now convinced Billy G is a racist. I’m sure Acie Law would concur. And your self professed work ethic is a credit to your generation.

    Hit that bong again, dude.

  20. Braddy Says:

    Matt - during your tour last yr w/ ramel & joe, did you get a sense from those guys that they like BCG, respected him as a coach?

  21. 10, 2, and 4 Says:

    If people who stand by the Coach are being more hypocritical than anyone else, which is an exaggeration like an attorney might whip up, this doesn’t exclude them from being right about supporting our Coach. This is a straw man argument. Set ‘em up and knock ‘em down. How about a lawyer twisting things - that could never happen. Could it, Matt?

  22. mgcat Says:

    I agree Matt, and hopefully I have never come off as one of those people. But it’s a precarious balancing act as to who is responsible for the poor play of any team. If players don’t play, regardless of the reason, that deserves scrutiny just as much as the coach.

  23. booted Says:

    13 - they are 20 year old men! They get there school paid for…I worked in the food business in the evenings, and a recycle center on the weekends to pay for school. Trust me, I would much rather be criticized on a message board than digging through garbage to have my college paid for.

    I don;t critize players, I think they all play hard. But don’t throw the “pity” card out for these MEN!

  24. rdn Says:

    But, it is the COACH’S responsbility to GET THEM TO PLAY; why else have a coach????????

  25. Braddy Says:

    matt jones - see question #20!!!!!!!

  26. bestdamnukfanperiod Says:

    you can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink.

  27. rdn Says:

    26–stupid cliche; when you get paid big bucks you make the stinkin’ horse drink!

  28. MoBettaBlue Says:

    I’ve taken to DVRing the games and replaying them and it seems that the players do execute the gameplan as best they can.

    Play in your mans face - get beat off dribble
    play in your mans face - get beat back door
    Double the moving ball - leave one man open
    Double driving guards - don’t block out your man

    Coach’s get paid to take heat… how many of these folks defending BCG gave Tubby a lil heat?

  29. TheBigBooyah Says:

    Billy Clyde strikes me as the type of guy that voted for George Bush. Stubborn, refuses to change ways even though they are obviously not working.

    (sarcasm)

  30. fearnloathing20 Says:

    19- Hey man my generation deals with all the crap you created by making KY look like a backwards ass place where some figure from the mist of time (Billy) can come in and act like its 1950. He is a sexist jerkoff who I would not employ to carry files to my office. There is no excuse for being the BIGGEST face of a institution of learning and not knowing that the way you interact with reporters and hookers should be different. And while I did partake in Mary Jane in college I was referring to a beer-bong not a Phelps-bong, but that doesnt have anything to do with this.

  31. Prince44 Says:

    I know that admitting you are wrong is not your strong suit but you have been off base today Matt. It started with the poll and now this.

    Saying that players aren’t talented enough to play at UK is not out of line if it’s true. It’s not like we’re up in their faces saying it.

  32. booted Says:

    30 - I got $5 on it….

  33. rdn Says:

    No question this isn’t the most talented team in UK’s history, but they should not lose to this GA team at HOME on Senior Night–they are better than that–and THAT my dear friends is the COACH’S fault.

  34. fearnloathing20 Says:

    31 WTF? A poll cannot make a person off base… Sorry but Nixon is not in office any more this is still a Democracy.

  35. Matt Jones Says:

    I have long said that I wouldnt get into the behind the scenes stuff told to me by Joe and Ramel during the Barnstorming Tour….its not fair to them. But I can say that from conversations with nearly all the players that have played for Gillispie at UK, there are some serious problems in how he relates to them and it is more than a little bit troubling.

    When the season is over, we will get into more specifics on that subject, but much of my frustration with Coach has to do with his treatment of the players, both past and present.

  36. CoLe_D Says:

    hit the road billy!!!

  37. booted Says:

    Matt - you have said multiple times that recruits are not suitable for UK basketball, while on the recruiting front….is that not the same thing?

  38. ruppcrazy Says:

    It is the coaches responsibility to motivate, recruit, gameplan, adjust, substitute, etc. It’s no accident that some coaches win everywhere they go. Coaching is the key to winning.

  39. booted Says:

    Also, the Mark Coury joke about starting…is that not the same thing? Just because you don’t come right out and say it, does not mean you are not implying it…

  40. Matt Jones Says:

    #37….you are missing my point….I dont mind if you criticize players….we do it a decent amount. But dont tell me that it is off limits to criticize the coach and that you arent a “true UK fan” because you criticize the coach, while in the same breath you blast the players.

  41. Braddy Says:

    matt- BCG acts as if he cares deeply for his players past & present…………thats the question I want hard evidence on b/c if its true then my thought process changes on billy clyde………b/c if the players don’t believe in the coach then nothing else matters!!

  42. 10, 2, and 4 Says:

    35 What motivated you to put up the poll the morning after a loss?

  43. TheBigBooyah Says:

    Im pooping.

  44. BigBlueFan Says:

    I think it’s moronic to say anything that includes “only a true fan”.

  45. Matt Jones Says:

    Well you arent going to get hard evidence….no player is going to publically blast the coach, especially when he is still on the team. So you will either trust those of us that talk about it or not, that is your call. The one player that did mention negative treatment (Dusty Mills) was ripped by nearly everyone for doing it….my guess is that no player will do it again.

    I think Gillispie does care for his players….that doesnt excuse the way the relationships are handled.

  46. fearnloathing20 Says:

    42– all you have to do is look at how his stars respond to him. They dismiss everything he says and yell at him on the sideline. The players would not Piss on Billy if he was on fire.

  47. booted Says:

    40 - after I posted I went and re-read the post, and noticed I was wrong…

    Agree with the post and needed to be said.

  48. freshjive Says:

    Gillispie is obviously not the right person for the job, sadly he is our best and only option at this point in time. If he leaves/gets shit canned, we’ll be lucky to get a mid major assistant. His attitude sucks and his “game plan” is stupid. Any you can’t fix stupid!!!

  49. Braddy Says:

    matt jones - could you at least say whether or not they respected him as coach?

  50. ruppcrazy Says:

    42)I would say because last night there was no question that we got beat by a team with less talent, that is in a transition period, and, as said before, it was the worst loss in the post-probation era.

  51. Miller Time Says:

    Last year Crawford & Bradley thought about quitting the team at a practice.
    Legion, Jasper, Stewart, and the run in’s with Liggins this year.
    I’d say he’s a complete jack*ss to be around.

  52. fearnloathing20 Says:

    49– Matt doesnt need to say that. All you have to do is watch them during the game then watch a Bobby Knight, Coach K, Bill Self, ect ect coached team and see the difference its one of the most crystal clear things you could ever see.

  53. freshjive Says:

    Huge jackass who can’t win a critcal game!

  54. Hendrix Says:

    I can’t wait until the season is over so Matt can get into more specifics about how Billy G treats his players. Those poor guys, I bet he calls them names and stuff. It’s hard to believe that a coach would do such a thing to young MEN like that….

    I’m sure that Matt would still be bringing these questionable “coaching/teaching” methods no matter what are record were right now

  55. Braddy Says:

    not hardly 52

  56. Fastcats007 Says:

    MGCAT is a layer hater… dang, nope… a player ater…dang, nope a player hater and coach over…dang, keyboard…nope a player hater, coach lover…dang I’m eated…wait … bloody hell … HEATED…ps, I think the Harlem Globetrotters could run a better offense for JODIE with the Weave or SCREENING or DOUBLE SCREEENING..i mean one of the best shooters in the league and he HAS (is forced to create) is own shot or work off a weak screen and shoot from 2 feet +; beyond the extended three line. I mean I know the kid is awesome but shouldn’t we(aka coach draw up a quality play)to help MISTA MEEKS (and help PP of course too.)…oh, wait I think Jeanine Edwards beat me to this BAAAAAAA D question…

  57. ruppcrazy Says:

    54)That’s not the point. If he could win a bunch of games with a group of guys who didn’t respect or like him, then it wouldn’t matter. Since he obviously can’t, or at least not consistently, then it’s an issue.

  58. fearnloathing20 Says:

    54– I had a coach that used to call us EVERYTHING you could but we could always tell he was just a rough country boy who wanted us to be the best men we could be. I had another coach who was “religious” and we hated him because we could tell he did not give a damn about us. Just look at Bobby Knight’s former players.

  59. freshjive Says:

    56 - what language is that?

  60. Hendrix Says:

    I really made a mess of the last sentence but you get the point. Some players do respond to the “tough love” teaching method and some don’t, thats just how it goes. Just don’t lead people on with information you are not willing to discuss because it just makes things worse. And I know its our and not are…

  61. Ky76 Says:

    I’ve said it a million times….Billy G. is the second coming of Eddie Sutton….it’s a simply history lesson

    Rick P. was like Rupp (just bear with me)

    Tubby = Joe B. (good but just not good enough as his predecessor)

    Billy G= Eddie Sutton

    the good news is…our next coach should start the cycle over.

  62. ruppcrazy Says:

    61)is it allowed to start the cycle over with Ricky P. again?

  63. ruppcrazy Says:

    and can we do without probation this time around?

  64. Hendrix Says:

    I completely agree that he is not winning with this method, but I doubt he is going to turn into a lovable guy over the next two days or even the next two years. BCG is going to stick to his gameplan, try to bring in players who do respond to that, and hopefully are better skilled for his system. I am always one to give a guy a chance. I remember seeing all the FIRE RICH signs in the eruption zone three years ago, and all the stuff on here about how players weren’t responding and that it wasn’t working, and look where we are now. Obviously we all hold our Basketball program to a much higher standard and I am just as frustrated as anybody, but lets all step back, breath, and get back to work!!!!!

  65. freshjive Says:

    Pitino handed out “tough love” he wore their asses out then built them back up. BCG beats their asses then kicks them while they are down. Big difference

  66. ruppcrazy Says:

    64)Don’t buy it. This cannot be a love hate relationship where it takes him 4 years to endear himself to the fans and players. We have to get on top quicker than that. And a coach like that will always have teams that don’t respond and fall apart. I want John C.

  67. Shoop Says:

    From Websters dictionary…some of you need to read:

    1sup•port

    Pronunciation:
    \sə-ˈpȯrt\
    Function:
    transitive verb
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Anglo-French supporter, from Late Latin supportare, from Latin, to transport, from sub- + portare to carry — more at FARE
    Date:
    14th century
    1: to endure bravely or quietly : BEAR2 a (1): to promote the interests or cause of (2): to uphold or defend as valid or right : ADVOCATE (3): to argue or vote for b (1): ASSIST , HELP

  68. Fastcats007 Says:

    50- check 14 for the rosetta stone…ohhh

  69. ruppcrazy Says:

    65)agree. You almost never hear Pitino say a harsh thing about his players in February or March. He want to build a lot of confidence at that point.

  70. Miller Time Says:

    64) How’s Liggins working out?

  71. Fastcats007 Says:

    59***check 14 for the rosetta stone…(explanation)

  72. Fastcats007 Says:

    how can one be freshjive without knowledge of lingo???

  73. freshjive Says:

    Rosetta Stone has an ebonics version?

  74. Matt Jones Says:

    Let me just say this….I was around Tubby and have been around Rick some at Louisville. The relationship that Gillispie has with his players is not in any way similar to those guys. Like or dislike those former coaches, the relationship is in a different ballpark in terms of treatment

  75. ruppcrazy Says:

    68)not sure what you were talking about

  76. TheBigBooyah Says:

    vote in my polls if you get bored arguing.

  77. ruppcrazy Says:

    67)we all “promote the interest or cause of” UK basketball and that is the reason we want BCG gone!!!

  78. man-bear-pig Says:

    I think all of you need to take a deep breath and count to 10…

    Everyone needs to back off the coach and players. How do you think calling people out is going to help anything? A college basketball team lives or dies based on confidence. Having the fan base calling for the coach’s head while the season is still in progress isn’t going to help the team’s confidence. Calling out the players is definitely going to damage their confidence. Like it or not, there are still games to be played and I want to see them every damned one.

    There is a time and place for everything but right now is not the time nor place to tear down this team because YOU are in panic mode.

  79. Fastcats007 Says:

    no jivey…the rosetta stone historically is the birth of translation…well i was clowning on 14…see above and then let me know if it’s a good punchline, willya…i wasn’t going for ‘new slang’ or ‘rocket science’ more of a comedic jim brewer tonality…anyways…the bottom line in reference to UK is if I see one hard screen or potential double screen or even more pick and roles with jodie and patterson…then I will be more satisfied as I have not been witness to this yet.

  80. MoBettaBlue Says:

    #64 you can’t compare bball and football rosters due to sheer numbers… if you’r not getting thru to 2-3 out of 15 (10 that count) it’s bad business. When you have 60-70 players there’s more room for error.

  81. ruppcrazy Says:

    74)That’s the main reason for last night imo. They don’t care about him enough to play for him.

  82. freshjive Says:

    79 - understood, youz the shiz nit dawg!

  83. Shoop Says:

    77) how would firing a coach who has less that 2 years with the program “promote the interest or cause”? More that likely that means no Meeks, Patterson, Orton, Ferguson, possibly Hood?

    You bring in a new coach with less talent and the least patient fan base in America? Looks like a recipe for disaster to me!

  84. fearnloathing20 Says:

    81 agree completely

  85. Fastcats007 Says:

    thanks jivey…but pleaszzzz do not refer to the “nit” when complimenting me.

  86. freshjive Says:

    85 - we’ll be lucky to get to the “NIT”

  87. rdn Says:

    Shoop–we COULD get a coach that would be able to keep those players and those recruits–it doesn’t have to set us back 5 years. Jamie Dixon would come and he would be great. With what he has done with Pitt, he would be incredible with the UK resources.

  88. Fastcats007 Says:

    86. uh, beg to differ, might get forced there if we play like we have but…not lucky to be there…

  89. freshjive Says:

    87 - Why in the hell would Jamie Dixon leave a top 3 team like Pitt to come to UK?

    88 - If play like we have been and we loose to UF and the 1st round of the SEC we’ll be lucky.

  90. Shoop Says:

    87) So Jamie Dixon is competing for a title THIS year @ Pitt., but would come to Kentucky to rebuild us??? Interesting.

  91. CAnTuckeeBoi Says:

    Too all of those comparing this to the rich brooks situation I would have to say that you have no argument…..Rich brooks had no talent and no scholarships when he became coach, he was on probation and definitely had a “bye.” That would have been like firing Tom Crean this year b/c he had a bad year at Indiana…..

    Now UK basketball by no means has as much talent as it has had in the past, and part of the BCG inherited, but there are about 5 losses on our schedule right now that I know we are a superior team …… (Miss St., Ole Miss, Georgia, Vandy, VMI,) You lose one of those you call it an upset you lose all 5 you call it a darn shame……..

  92. rdn Says:

    Dixon would come to UK for the same reason most coaches would come–we are the best program in the nation

  93. yatesrp22 Says:

    Don’t disagree that it is hypocritical to bash the players and not the coach, but the players deserve just as much criticism as the coach. When I or anyone says this team does not have top talent that is not a bash on the players it’s just a fact. You have to face the fact that besides Patterson and Meeks there is not much there. Miller is getting better and better. My point all a long is that I don’t criticize Gillispie because he is trying to run a system that he does not have the players for. To call for his head now is foolish. I hate the argument that he should adjust to the players he has. I’ve said it a million times the top programs and coaches do not adjust to what they have they get the players to play in their system. Pitino brings in players and conditions them to play a full court press and up tempo offense. Calhoun did not adjust to a team of all freshman and sophmores a few years ago and look at that team now. The struggled badly then but now they are pretty good. Matt Jones and some other posters on here come across as pretty uneducated and just want immediate wins from Gillispie. The players deserve all the criticism in the world. If you don’t want it don’t play the sport.

    Oh and one other thing…Matt saying this is the worst post-probabtion loss for UK is hysterical to me, but that is an opinion matter. In no way should Kentucky have lost to Georgia last night but Georgia had nothing to play for and shot lights out. Did coaching have anything to with them hitting 40% higher on free throws and some of the trash shots that went in no. Matt said on the live blog that Gillispie plays a defense that does not suit Porter…exactly Matt not the player for the system. Get over the adjusting to the players. This has been a bad season and it will get better for this program. Deal with it and be a UK fan. Go Cats.

  94. freshjive Says:

    92 - are you f’n serious? Please tell me you’re not that delusional! Taking the entire history of college basketball into account UK is a top 3 program. Too bad history doesn’t mean jack squat to high school kids these days. Hell as far as they know UK has been a sub par basketball team for most of their life. I don’t know if you can seriously lump UK into a top 20 program in the nation right now. Dixon would laugh at Barnhart if he called. The only reason Dixon would take his call is the hopes in getting an easy win on Pitt’s schedule next year.

  95. Shoop Says:

    92) Signed,
    Billy Donovan

  96. rdn Says:

    Billy Donovan made a mistake, and I would guarantee he regrets that decision now. We certainly couldn’t get any coach in America; but most coaches still regard UK as one of the top 3 programs to coach (with UNC/DUKE/KANSAS/UCLA). Pittsburgh is no where close to that line-up; Dixon is why they are good and UK would be more of an elite program to coach at. That is why he would come. Just my opinion–maybe wrong, maybe right.

  97. rdn Says:

    oh, and we can pay a WHOLE lot more than anyone.

  98. mgcat Says:

    Matt, I have the utmost respect for your work here at KSR. You’ve achieved an admirable level of success that most people never reach.

    That said, you mention the “troubling” way that Gillispie apparently treats players, per your inside info. I understand the need to protect those that provide you with “inside” info. However, if a coach is behaving in manner that is detrimental, or even unethical, don’t you have a journalistic responsibility to share what that is? To SOME degree?

    Otherwise, what you are referring to hearsay, and that sir is potentially damaging to both the coach and the players reputation.

    Your initial instinct not to share this hearsay is probably better served.

  99. True blue fan Says:

    What people haven’t come to terms with yet is the fact we don’t have a point guard. Billy G. gave the responsibility to Porter. Porter as we all know has not done a good job at this position. However, I do not fault Porter for his performance at the pt. He is not a pt. He is more of a 2 than a pt. Billy G. had to use what he had so he placed Porter at pt. If you ask Porter he probably doesn’t want to play the point.

    Mr. Liggins was given a shot at the pt. Now, he is a pt. However, we must give him a pass as well. He hasn’t figured out how to play with other players at this level (yet). He was highly recruited and we all wanted him to come on faster than what he has but the truth is he is a true freshman and needs to learn and grow.

    Galloway has now been given the nod to bring the ball up the court and it looks like a good discussion compared to the other two (right now). Now the argument rises out of this is “Why did it take Billy so long to do this?”. Well no matter how short of a memory you have you have to remember that Galloway did not start strong at the being of the season. He was playing run and gun juco ball. Now all of a sudden things are starting to click with this kid. Unfortunately for us (the fans) it is late in the season and it may cost a bid to the NCAA tourney. I do think Billy missed how Galloway improved through the course of the season (which is causing chemistry problems now) but I am not saying he is a bad coach (yet). I do believe he has room for improvement. And I believe he will improve to a championship level. He loves the game. I don’t think UK will be patient enough to give him this chance and that is unfortunate.

    If you look at Billy D in Florida, he is not that great of a coach either. However he can mask it with recruits. I think Billy G will be able to do the say until he figures out what works for him. And like Billy D, Billy G might win a championship while trying to figure it out(you got to have the players).

    Basically what I am saying is Billy G was given a horrible pt. situation. He thought he would have Jasper to help Liggins adjust to this level of play but it didn’t happen. No one was performing well at this position and Billy G had to put someone out there to play. The searching through the season to find someone to step up has messed up the rest of the team. What would you do in the situation? Jody Meeks (thank god for Jody Meeks) was masking our point situation but Ole Miss seen right through it and everybody else followed suit. By the way if Tubby was coaching Meeks would not of had the type of year he has had.

    Every year there is problems. Teams are not going to be perfect like in 96. However we as fans (I say we because the good fans and bad fans get lumped together) are causing more problems in that locker room than anyone. We are hard on Porter, who is trying to do better, we are hard on Liggins, who is a true freshman, and we are hard on Billy G. who is listening to us too much. NO GOOD WILL COME FROM WHAT WE ARE DOING (as fans)! This will cause Liggins to transfer (he will be a good or great player). This will cause problems with recruits (no wants to play for a fan base that runs off good players). If we fire Billy G. it will hurt us it getting a good coach and set are recruiting backwards and cause us to be terrible for at least four more years.

    Although this was not a good season, we as fans need to step back and relax and support our coach so maybe be can get the type of players we are use to and get back to were we belong. We are being compared to the worst fans in all of sports and that is not the Kentucky I grew up in

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